ASEAN, (the Association of Southeast Asian Nations), has been the keystone of diplomacy in South East Asia for more than four decades but now its relevance is being challenged from within and without.

Proposals for Asian economic and security structures seem to be emerging on an almost weekly basis and at ASEAN's foreign ministers meeting last week, Singapore's Prime Minister warned the organisation would be sidelined if it took its relevance for granted. Jim Middleton speaks to ASEAN Secretary-General Dr Surin Pitsuwan.

Jim Middleton, Presenter: Secretary-General, welcome to the program

Dr Surin Pitsuwan, ASEAN Secretary-General: Thank you very much, it's a pleasure to be with you.

Jim Middleton: First of all, what did you make of Prime Minister Lee's remarks that ASEAN can not take its continued relevance for granted and that without a deeper and faster integration ASEAN may well be sidelined, what did you make of that?

Dr Surin Pitsuwan: Well I think it's a statement of fact. Everybody recognises that ASEAN has to consolidate itself. That's why we are working very hard to get the charter ratified. Right now seven members have ratified, three more going and it is very much expected that by the end of the year we'll have the full ratification. Then ASEAN will be a legal entity, have a legal personality, becoming a rule-based organisation ready to compete, ready to move and ready to cooperate with the international community.

Jim Middleton: Is ASEAN at a bit of a turning point though? China, Japan and South Korea are about to hold their own summit. There's the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, there's the framework of the six party talks surrounding North Korea. Is ASEAN having a bit of a struggle to maintain its relevance in the broader region?

Dr Surin Pitsuwan: Well, every member of the three countries in the east that you mentioned, whether it's China or Japan or South Korea, have been saying that although they are meeting out there for the first time outside of the ASEAN process, they still very much value the opportunities and the occasions that ASEAN provides for them and they will continue to give importance to ASEAN.

I see all these developments as part and parcel of the evolution in the region, in the larger region, which is very, very logical and very natural. ASEAN will have to consolidate itself and will have to claim and reclaim its centrality and I think the fact that we are going through our own transformation and reorganisation and consolidation is a way of trying to ensure that our centrality is being assured.

Jim Middleton: It does seem that almost every week there's some proposal for some new form of regional architecture. Did the ASEAN foreign ministers at their meeting discuss, for example, Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's proposal for an Asia Pacific economic community and what did they think of it?

”Let the debate begin and let the conversation begin.”

Dr Surin Pitsuwan: Well the Foreign Minister Stephen Smith certainly volunteered the explanation and the reasoning and rationale behind it and I think it's becoming an issue that everybody is interested in. And I think it's, you know, an issue that people have to think about. Some see it as a challenge, some see it as a natural progression of things in the region. But like your Prime Minister Mr Kevin Rudd said, let the debate begin and let the conversation begin. I think everyone has the best interests of the region in mind.

Jim Middleton: Burma seems something of a test case for ASEAN. US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice says that ASEAN needs to push Burma to release political prisoners. Do you agree with her and if so what steps is ASEAN taking to push the junta further?

Dr Surin Pitsuwan: ASEAN has been trying to encourage the process of national reconciliation forward inside Myanmar, and we have been doing that for some time. And I think things are moving along and the involvement of ASEAN in the humanitarian mission after cyclone Nargis hit, certainly has encouraged and has made a contribution to the value of ASEAN for Myanmar. And I think there is a level of trust between us and between Myanmar and the world. So I think we certainly can hope that the conversation and the dialogue can go on and we very much value the opportunities for the interaction that is taking place. And ASEAN certainly is pleased to be able to foster a higher level of confidence and respect with each other.

Jim Middleton: Burma has just acceded to ASEAN's charter with its commitment to the principles of human rights and democracy. You'd be pleased about that but how does that sit with Burma's refusal to release people like, or someone like Aung San Suu Kyi?

”There is a tremendous diversity in the region.”

Dr Surin Pitsuwan: Well I mean the fact that there is now a benchmark, there will be a human rights body and in the charter there are phrases like the respect for the principle of democracy, good governance and the protection and promotion of human rights - all these things are foundation for further evolution in the region. There is a tremendous diversity in the region.

Jim Middleton: But do you think those sorts of things are evident in Burma?

Dr Surin Pitsuwan: Certainly there is very clear statement of the ministers calling for the release of all political prisoners including Aung San Suu Kyi and I think that is the wish of the international community. ASEAN is expressing the same wish.

Jim Middleton: ASEAN also urged Burma to take what it termed bolder steps to hold free and fair elections by 2010. How can elections in Burma be free and fair if someone like Aung San Suu Kyi is not free herself and not able to contest the elections?

Dr Surin Pitsuwan: The ministers may have some ideas, may have passed on some wishes. I am not privilege to those but certainly there are ways, there are communications going on and we all hope that there will be some flexibility, there will be some accommodation and the situation will be moving in the right direction of reconciliation and of further flexibility.

Jim Middleton: Mr Secretary-General, thank you very much for your time.

Dr Surin Pitsuwan: Thank you very much. It's an honour.