Jim Middleton, presenter: I spoke to Malaysia's Prime Minister Abdullah Badawi prior to his announcement of his impending retirement.

Prime Minister welcome to the program.

Abdullah Badawi, Malaysian Prime Minister: Thank you.

Jim Middleton: Australia, as you know, you've just had talks with Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, as you know, Australia has a significant peacekeeping contribution in Afghanistan; troops. And I believe the Australian Prime Minister was very interested in Malaysia's attitudes and experience in peacekeeping.

Is there any chance of Malaysia sending forces to Afghanistan at some stage?

Abdullah Badawi: Well, that opportunity hasn't arisen at this stage, but the most important point that Prime Minister Kevin Rudd brought up on this issue, or the issue of Afghanistan, was that Australia and Malaysia should cooperate on a specific program to provide for the training of teachers, Afghan teachers in Malaysia because this, in its view, is very much needed. They don't have enough teachers, they don't have good teachers yet. Not enough, the number is not enough. And Malaysia and Australia can combine, can put out together our resources and provide that kind of training.

Australia and Malaysia should cooperate on a specific program to provide for the training of teachers, Afghan teachers.

Jim Middleton: So this will be to enable the effort in Afghanistan to expand from the military to the civil – is that the idea?

Abdullah Badawi: Well, that more or less is the idea. I think it's important that, I have also said it's important that we do something besides peacekeeping, militarily speaking, something that can help the people, something that creates a social service to people. I think that's very, very important to do and I will go along with it, no problem.

Jim Middleton: To another subject. Malaysia has had a long and deep interest in the development of regional institutions. As you know Mr Rudd has recently proposed the establishment of an Asia-Pacific economic community. What do you make of that?

Abdullah Badawi: We discuss(ed) on that subject, we took some time, a very interesting discussion on that. But I did mention to him he will have to take a little bit of time. If ASEAN is an experience, you see we are talking about developing ASEAN community, it took a long time to come to where we are, to even have the charter. Even at this moment the charter is not yet ratified by all the ASEAN countries, not yet. But this is the very important stage at which we have arrived where we are really committed, we want it.

Jim Middleton: Do you think that Asia does need a security institution that involves the United States, China and, of course, the South East Asian nations?

Abdullah Badawi: We already have, we already have a forum – ASEAN Regional Forum of security. And that, the participants of the forum, all the members of, practically all members, practically, those who are already associated with ASEAN as ASEAN PMC or ASEAN plus three or the East Asian summit, these are friends who are now in ASEAN Regional Forum or ARF.

Jim Middleton: So would it be better to develop existing institutions rather than to add more?

Abdullah Badawi: Yes, yes, I think we can continue with this existing institution because this will take up any subject on the issue of security.

Jim Middleton: Turning to your own plans, you have a succession plan in place. Why are you deciding or have you decided that you would step aside in 2010, I think?

Jim Middleton: Well, this is subject that I will be discussing with our supreme council which is meeting this afternoon and I will not say anything yet. And then I think in the afternoon later on, late in the afternoon I will be able to make some statement.

Jim Middleton: But you have made it clear already that you do intend to, or that you have a succession plan in place.

It is important that … UMNO remains strong.

Abdullah Badawi: I was the first, I was the person who started it first. It's not anybody who mentioned it. I mentioned it on occasion when I was meeting the information officers of our party at a special gathering. I was talking about the need, one day some leaders will go, new leaders will come up and this is happening at all levels. So the most important thing is (to) continuity, if anything is going to happen it has to be properly done so that it will not create problems within the party.

These are the points that I have been telling them because this is the year when we're going to have a party election and I want it to go smoothly.

It is important that we must maintain the UMNO (United Malays National Organisation), ensure that UMNO remains strong. A strong UMNO is good for the people and UMNO is good for the Government.

And I told them, I too will have to go. I don't want there be a period where, eh, you guys get ready to go. What about me?

Jim Middleton: Your party did suffer a setback in this year's general election.

Abdullah Badawi: Yes.

Jim Middleton: How much do you think cost-of-living pressures on Malaysians contributed to those reversals?

Abdullah Badawi: The issue of inflation, the issue of (the) increasing price of oil and also the prices of commodities certainly was a very big issue that has influenced the thinking of the people and the way they decided, I believe.

Jim Middleton: Back in 2004 you made a public priority the elimination of corruption in Malaysia.

Abdullah Badawi: Yes, yes.

Jim Middleton: Now I understand the local head of Transparency International is saying that corruption in Malaysia has hit what was termed a critical level. What's your reaction to those statements?

Corruption is still here, is still high and we need to fight.

Abdullah Badawi: I don't know what he means by critical level but corruption is still here, is still high and we need to fight.

We have succeeded. I have taken two approaches, I have said so. One is preventative. You must prevent. Preventative measure is very important. The other one is curative, that is what we are doing.

Perception is too strong, perception is too strong, perception that people in public office are corrupt, for example, and nepotism is corrupt. So this is very strong perception, but never mind.

That may be the perception but my business, my duty, my struggle is to ensure that we will reduce corruption as much as possible if we can wipe it off, and we are doing it and I must say that I have succeeded in this area.

But it is in the area of security part of it, of investigating cases that have been reported to the BPR, that is the anti-corruption agency that UMNO has got. But cases, opening files all have increased.

And we have also increased the force now. We also have a core of these forensic auditors, these very important people to have with the anti-corruption agency, where we increase the number by 3,000 is the target for the new offices. And we are now giving them the power also to prosecute and this is something that's very, very important for the BPR to continue.

And soon I will also be bringing to, I think that we'll be bringing reform to the anti-corruption agency by (having) bringing into existence the committee, the parliamentary committee. This is a very important committee.

Jim Middleton: One other subject, if I may, Prime Minister. Anwar Ibrahim keeps saying that it's only a matter of time before sufficient Government MPs defect, that he would have a majority in Parliament.

How serious is that threat and can you fend off the challenge?

Abdullah Badawi: This is Anwar's campaign. He's not happy. He didn't do well. I tell you his party didn't do well. My party did better.

His party, the seats, plus PMIP joined together, combined. The UMNO seats, it's much bigger than the other party, by, he's talking about the prime minister-in-waiting, so what's he going to do? He's trying to urge people to cross over to him so they have enough numbers to throw me out and to throw the Government out and assume the ...

Jim Middleton: So is he talking through his hat?

Abdullah Badawi: He's talking through his hat, he's talking nonsense. It will never happen.

Jim Middleton: What do you also say to the question of these new allegations, these recent allegations, the sodomy charges against him, his allegation that they are a Government fabrication?

Abdullah Badawi: No, definitely no.

Jim Middleton: Not even – what about his other accusation that his accuser is someone who has Government links?

Jim Middleton: Government links with what?

Jim Middleton: Well, that's what he says.

Abdullah Badawi: What Government links?

Jim Middleton: So you're denying, you deny that that is the case?

Abdullah Badawi: There's no Government, there's no Government involvement, there's no Government conspiracy whatsoever.

He thinks that this is a good argument, this is a good explanation, this is a good, this approach to win the people's support, that he wanted to have so much.

He can do whatever he wants but the fact is that I have said the investigation must be carried out and must be done properly, properly. That's very, very important and this is what we want and let the investigation, then, prove yes or no.

But if it's yes the matter will have to be taken to the court, of course. Then he will have to prove himself in the court. That's another battle in the court.

But if the investigation proves that there's nothing, nothing of that sort had happened, he goes free. That's not a problem, it's not a problem – the court, the law, that's all.

Jim Middleton: Prime Minister, thank you very much for your time.

Abdullah Badawi: Thank you.